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 General Concerns

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PostSubject: Re: General Concerns   2014-06-12, 23:23

Being an active and regular player in project ion sinds okt 2013+- Loggin in gave me some kind of joy i didnt have for a long long time.
Ever since that time(Okt) there where some roomers of a coming update, maybe skills, armor, crafting globals, mentoring system, soc's....
Acoring to some player, it would only be 3 months at max before another update (ofc there could go something wrong, but hey)
this info was taken as official/valid sinds the player in question is closer to the dev's and responsable for the PR.
Anyway 4 Months later there still was no update, some video's came out showing the poc of the UMA avatar, realy nice btw.
Some time passed with and adittional video from time to time, via the donnations the ammount was reached to buy a Pro licence of Unity  Exclamation 
Someone started a guess the (up)date contest on this forum....

But by now i guess it's realy time to start thinking about what to do with it, the game itself has alot of futur potential,
it will attract A lot of player's looking for the same kind of joy i experience in here. But for now i see alot of old and new players turn there back or idle at the side line waiting for something to happen
I Apsolutely understand there's alot of expected and unexpected bug's, code, issues to take care of.
Considering the fact that the Game was/is practicly a one man job, i take off may hat in anyway.
Still,the waiting hurts, let's say the pain is unbearable. If the update will take another 6 months so be it,
but there's a lack of transparance in general.



Here are some points Arrow 



-Development
-Is it possibru to publicate the issue wish is "currently" worked on over at your side ( blog/forum)
-Could there be more direct guidelines on what pathway to take in for example the Uma" cloths/armor's/handhelds.
-Would it be an idea to make a public list of developing opstacles and/or " model's item's Code's/script's ... " the game "needs
 in that way it's more clear for whoever willing to participate in the continues development of this game

-Donnations
-Woud it be possible to see a live balance of the donnations allready made
-Nice aswell is to see what the next finacial target will be


-Project Ion/Testbuilt
- What will the short future bring us
- Will there be a company/accociation : Profid/non Profid
- What about an official forum and webite



So Dev's ; ?






 Suspect


Last edited by Sir Smokey Xaphoon on 2014-06-13, 03:50; edited 1 time in total
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Tesla Coil

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PostSubject: Re: General Concerns   2014-06-13, 01:58

Everyone can read the FAQ on the official website and talk personally with the developers trough IRC, so if you want facts I would always turn to the developers, prefer to Jelle who is responsible for PR and not to me, the self-proclaimed ambassadors.

It was announced that implementing UMA would take at least 3 months, along with some other work that had to be done it would be a realistic time frame.

Fairly soon after the 3 months aim announcement by "me" their was decided to do a lot more than only UMA and so they started with a almost complete redesign of the coding and other changes, really important changes btw.

It was already known by then (late 2013) that it would going to take at least 6 months, also announced by "me".

About your points regarding a dev blog, insight in funds, a official forum, the creation of a official company ect... All agree on them and think developers agree as well.

But i trust them to be at least as smart as us, and assume they are even smarter so i rest in peace for what is coming.

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PostSubject: Re: General Concerns   2014-06-13, 02:21

I have to agree with Xaphoon's post,
We had a special vibe starting this game, its been withering away for a while now. We got told the update would only take 3months, this was said by Tesla and not by the devs themselves. We were naive enough to believe it because he was acting as if it was official (we know better now). We were also told unity pro license would be bought once the funds from donations allowed it. We know the goal is reached but we do not know why they didn't acquire the license yet. There was much talk about a better server also, currently its running on a laptop. We heard the future server might get outsourced to a cloud, its about 20euro per month for the cloud server. UB Hamburger has a lot of lag/server issues, so he offered the devs to pay for the cloud server for a period of 2 years, sadly, they denied his offer to help. I fail to understand why. It's difficult to know what the devs think about these concerns honestly, we rarely get direct answers, they beat around the bush often.

I have the feeling that the devs see this as a hobby, more than a professional opportunity.

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PostSubject: Re: General Concerns   2014-06-13, 03:08

This is Beta. We do not care about huge updates. Just test things as you have it, even if server go down for 2 days. The bigger the update, the bigger the problems. The goal is FUN, igniting fun for players. Playing actually is more close to sadomasochism than pleasure (even if my pleasure is sadomasochism).

Its time to go ahead. After the upcoming update, never reproduce this kind of suspense. Give players contents, even a new item. For example I do not think it would be THAT HARD to put White Tank suit in loot. Is it that hard ?? I do not think so. That give players a goal, something to achieve.

We trust in humans. We trust in you. Do not fuck with gK.

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PostSubject: General Concerns   2014-06-13, 08:23

@Xaphoon: Thanks Xaphoon, relevant points. We've already addressed some of these during our voice and real life chat-sessions, but I agree it's a good time to put it in writing. If Admin could be so kind to transfer your post to it's own thread in the appropriate sub-forum (Discussions?) I'd be happy to elaborate on the points you mentioned.

@Babar: I'm not surprised you didn't remember the talk we had about the Pro license... Wink
We talked about our strategic decision to wait with the purchase because we still had a lot of work to do that didn't require a pro license. In case of an engine upgrade we'd have to go out and buy another license. Now with the Unity 5 pre-order we get the license for Unity 4 as well, so that worked out well.
We also mentioned that we needed the 0.6.0 build to actually be able to host and manage servers externally. It's a bit of a let down to see how you phrased it as if we didn't like the generous offer from UB Hamburger...

@Treedoc: I think we're on the same page. Releasing at this point would mean dropping back from limited features and content to almost no features nor content. I don't even dare to imagine how much work this forum and IRC would provide me if we went ahead and released as-is...  Mad

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PostSubject: Re: General Concerns   2014-06-13, 23:45

While I understand the points some people here are making, I believe the overall goal of Project Ion is lost on some of you. When I first joined the project it only consisted of real life friends of Jelle, as far as I'm aware. I don't remember them saying anywhere PIon was to make the 'big bucks'; it really appeared to me like a learning and growing experience.

This is the main reason Jelle never wanted to give dates, it starts to create problems like we see here on the forums.

I know Jelle and John value every single one of you, as I've seen full development teams with PR barely able to give more than copy/paste answers and updates. It would only be fair to treat them the same way. They aren't on our schedule, and they don't owe anyone here a thing. If you decide to leave because of slow development, you probably weren't ready to take on the challenge that PIon is going to be.

I won't even mention some of the names I hear repeatedly for all different reasons, making players leave the game and generally being a black spot on the community. This in turn is actually hurting the player base more than slow updates ever will.
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PostSubject: Re: General Concerns   2014-06-14, 03:27

anyways.

i have some questions too, lets begin with this 3:

- what is "the higher" goal of project ion?
- what is meant by ".. a universe aimed to be fully controlled by players"? do you have a plan in mind how that should be realized? it could mean players funding the development f.e. a kickstarter campaign, players developing along with the devs? its very unclear to me what you mean
- do you (devs) see this as a hobbie, a hobbie that someday could become your profession, a profession, just a way to chillout after your dayjob?

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PostSubject: Re: General Concerns   2014-06-14, 04:30

SnelleEddie wrote:


@Babar: I'm not surprised you didn't remember the talk we had about the Pro license... Wink
We talked about our strategic decision to wait with the purchase because we still had a lot of work to do that didn't require a pro license. In case of an engine upgrade we'd have to go out and buy another license. Now with the Unity 5 pre-order we get the license for Unity 4 as well, so that worked out well.
We also mentioned that we needed the 0.6.0 build to actually be able to host and manage servers externally. It's a bit of a let down to see how you phrased it as if we didn't like the generous offer from UB Hamburger...


Thanks for clearing this up again Eddie, i do remember now the chat we had about unity5. As i understand it now you have made the pre-order, which is nice. The server i do not remember honestly. UB did not remember either, so thats where my line of questioning came from. Looking forward to vu and hopefully outsource networking then as well.

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PostSubject: Errr...   2014-06-14, 04:42

I think I'll just go ahead and use the input from Xaphoon and Lucius for an official announcement. albino

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PostSubject: Re: General Concerns   2014-06-14, 04:43

SnelleEddie wrote:
I think I'll just go ahead and use the input from Xaphoon and Lucius for an official announcement. albino

Haaaaa !!! Thank you Eddie.  cheers 

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PostSubject: Re: General Concerns   2014-06-15, 02:55

This is my only concern right now.

The fact that there are pvp zones in the game, should be self-explanatory.

Altho i see players who do not actually spend time in the game, old players who have returned and new players, get the idea that me and my team mates , are a bad thing for the game, by using the pvp to the full potential(without creating known exceptions in the game client/server), be it camping zones, attempting to do skirmish moments or just taking uncontested rewards.

This game has a persistent map with pvp zones, which create the opportunity for zone control 24/7 if there are enough players with different timezones, there are rewards to be taken in the zones and the players have little control over the frequency that said rewards are available.
I understand that it would be better for everyone if we could share the rewards evenly through all the game population, but it only works with a small number of players or until greed arise. But in a positive future, when the game has a bigger playerbase, this would simply not be possible anymore.

(Questions for players)
So why are you "allowing" to promote the idea, that controlling a specific pvp zone even if its 24/7(without creating known exceptions in the game client/server) , is bad for the game.
Why is there a majority of players currently active in the game, vouching for this idea and helping every new player feel bad in the game because of this zone control, instead of explaining to them the world mechanics? and all other game mechanics including pvp and society "warfare/alliance".


Appreciate the time!

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PostSubject: Re: General Concerns   2014-06-15, 03:13

This is better.

The game is far from finished as we all know.

The PvP area is not their for 24/7 domination yet in my opinion.
Having a aggressive atmosphere like their is now is not really constructive nor fun for most new players and old players.
With lots of childish remarks made, it not only ends up in the game-play but also in the chat and forums.

We all fantasize about the future live release, and how awesome wars can be with the right implementations.
So far those implementations are just idea's on the drawing board.

The top Goats their attitude tears apart and contradicts what most of us have build up and aiming for.

But hey it's a game, and maybe we will play along with your grandiose society sooner than you can hope for.
Hope you all will still like it by then.

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PostSubject: Re: General Concerns   2014-06-15, 03:59

Thanks for the input, i hope more players will read my concern and just think about it, i dont even ask for a reply, really.. it's all about finding your own reason for why is there an effort for trying to stamp a bad image for controlling pvp in this game.

Is it because you(the players) would prefer that everything is luck based and there is no player versus player at all or player fights over rewards?
Is it because you feel the pvp mechanics are way off?
what would your reason be?

For me personally the mechanics are good enough for the current game stage, they are balanced and seemingly equal for everyone, except if you really have a big delay, but thats expected in almost all multiplayer games.
The fact that the zones can be controlled 24/7, shows that they are there for that possibility.

I also see the aggressive atmosphere, but that is a reaction to a game mechanism(pvp and pvp zones), it will only stay aggressive and negative, if majority of players keep educating new players that it's wrong to pvp and teach them to take offence for dying when dying is an aspect of the game aswell.

What is in the future only time will tell, the right or wrong implementations may or may not come, like you are saying its just idea's on the drawing board.
Right now , what we have is what you see in the game and that's what me as a player is referring to.

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PostSubject: Re: General Concerns   2014-06-16, 04:51

I believe all of the things you describe Nahual are fine, within reason. You still need to realize like many others how very early in development this game is.  You speak of 'zone control' and 'rewards' like there is actually a functioning community at the moment. To be honest, the server doesn't even have enough login slots for that.

There is no reward for killing someone who doesn't want to participate in pvp itself. You can't count loot, that is being given away at the moment. The only exceptions I see to this are obviously if that person has killed you in the past or you are actively in a 'dispute' or something of the sort with them, unless you have negotiated some sort of a truce. Even there are some other lines that could be drawn, but any person can work that out for themselves.

I've retyped this about 5 times now as it's really a difficult topic to get across without sounding like a complete dick, and not to mention I want every single person in the game to stay here for whatever makes them happy. The main point here is a bigger moral choice needs to be made when interacting with people in such an early stage of the game. Only you can be the one to make that choice to sustain what little community this game currently has.
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PostSubject: Re: General Concerns   2014-06-16, 06:11

I really appreciate your time DeadEye and happy to see that you are experienced in pvp inside of a mmorpg game.
You raise valuable points.

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