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 Limited VS Unlimited

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PostSubject: Limited VS Unlimited   2013-11-10, 14:46

"Are these items limited or unlimited" is a question i often hear when people start playing project Ion.

So far the developers have focused on limited items only, as they not going to decide so early in development to exclude unlimited items they also not yet implemented it.

The discussion for us will be, do we want limited, unlimited or both.


  • Only limited


  • Only limited with very rare unlimited


  • Limited and unlimited


  • Only unlimited



When you prefer a certain system then please write it out here, tell us how the system should work and why you think it would work well.
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Tesla Coil

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PostSubject: Re: Limited VS Unlimited   2013-11-10, 15:23


  • Only limited

    Only limited like it is now would have a lot of merit for me personal.
    While it takes away the chance of finding very special equipment, it will not take away the fact you can find very special limited equipment or collecting resources for special limited equipment.
    The demand for resources will be much greater compared to any other option.
    Their will be more opportunities for looting unique equipment with awesome power and advantages, that will have to be used wise, instead of them pressing endless on the economy, like the unbalanced heal-kits in "Entropia Universe".



  • Only limited with very rare unlimited

    Having very rare drops from unlimited equipment besides the regular limited equipment will be very appealing. Just the idea of getting a unique gun, armor part or any other exclusive unlimited equipment will be a great motivation for many to keep playing and searching for.
    Depending on the kind of item we all should understand that it would mean a huge advantage for the person who owns it.
    If someone manage to get a full set of unlimited equipment needed for his profession it will mean he will only have the need to sell loot and never buy it again.
    Something really awesome to achieve and to play for, so yes i can see merit in this concept.



  • Limited and unlimited

    This could be nice but i not sure what it would do with the market from regular resources. To take a example from another game "Entropia Universe" it was always unlimited and it seemed very cool.
    Loot consisted out of items, in-game money and resources.
    Now days there drops no in-game money anymore and everything has mostly become resource based.
    People find it hard to sell all their loot often these days and often ending up with putting it in the trade terminal.
    For me personal due to this experience i certainly do not prefer this system anymore.


  • Only unlimited

    Having only limited items would directly give the need for a re-design from this platform.
    When you only hunt for PID or better items that you can simply repair with PID there will be little need left for resources, something this platform is focusing on. (Resources based economy)
    So I almost know for sure that a only unlimited items system will not be a option to consider for the developers nor most players. Still curious if anyone prefers this system and comes up with good suggestions why it could work

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Last edited by Tesla Coil on 2013-11-11, 15:23; edited 2 times in total
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Qweeg

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PostSubject: Re: Limited VS Unlimited   2013-11-10, 23:45

Okay before I start on this long winded post, the points in here are just my views.  I don't pretend to know more than anyone else - and I'm sure some will hate the ideas.  I have played both PE/EU for about 4 years and AW for about 18 months so these are my thoughts based on what I thought worked and what didn't in those games.

I thought about this a lot when I switched from Entropia to Afterworld (which only has limited items).  For me I think its very important that all the three professions work and dependent on each other - and I worry that unlimited items tend to negate that.  I had a decent set of unlimited equipment in Entropia - not the best, but Angel and a decent weapon set up, and it was definitely a good thing for me in terms of profitability and not having to worry where my next weapon was coming from.

The problem with Entropia I think was that they added the limited models and the emphasis on it way later - and loads of people already had decent unlimited stuff - so just weren't in demand.  The exception I can think of was mining amps - which seemed to be the only really decent thing for people to craft and have a chance of selling because people burnt through them so quickly, especially up on the asteroid.

So then there is the AW model - where everything is Limited.  Initially I found that quite strange, but it grew on me.  The thing is having everything Limited allows the in game economy to work fully:  hunters and miners are needed to supply crafters; and crafters are needed to supply hunters and miners.  And with a complex enough crafting/skill system crafters can specialise.

The downside with this model is the thrill of the loot window.  Every hunter loves to see swirlies and exciting stuff in the loot window.  If all you get are resources to sell on to the crafters it's a bit dull.  And that was my main criticism with AW - the loots just weren't exciting enough!

One option I guess would be to allow unlimited items in just one area.  For example weapons - armor HKs etc. is all crafted - so the crafters are still in demand.  But then the miners would complain that they don't have any unlimited items.  So again the problem is one of balance,


I do understand why people find the idea of unlimited items appealing - and I'm sure if I found one I would be thrilled too.  But even having them as very rare items has problems:


  • Take the RL rich player (and every game has them).  Over time they will buy up unlimited items and eventually have all the best things - people might disagree but it happens in all games, and I just can't see how you would prevent it.  Players can always choose to sell their really good find to someone (and often will if the price is right).

  • Then how do you manage the number of items?  So let's say there is a very small chance to loot an Unlimited Adjusted Prototype X.  Person A loots it, then what?  Do you wait until the playerbase increases before another one can be found?  If so what if it isn't really growing - after a while you will get people complaining that no one every finds a decent unlimited item.  Alternatively you keep dropping them in loot very rarely.  But then the problem is over time they are not so rare - they would never get destroyed so gradually more and more people would have them.

  • And then as mentioned there is the possible impact on the crafting profession


Okay so what is the solution?

Personally as good and as exciting as unlimited items are I can't see past the problems they create.  But to be balanced I have two ideas:

1) Very rare unlimited items

If people really like the idea of unlimited items I think they should involve crafting so instead of dropping Unlimited Items, you drop Unlimited Components - that can be used to make unlimited items.  To keep your loot interesting you could find say a chest in your loot window and when you open it you find it contains all the unlimited components for a particular gun, hk, mining equipment etc. then you just need to find a skilled crafter to make it for you.  The crafting system would have to allow for a crafter to make something out of your components (for a fee) without ownership of the items changing hands maybe.  That way you would still get your unlimited gun but you have involved the crafting profession.

In addition you could place another restriction on unlimited items.  So for example even though they are unlimited they need a power source.  The idea is that a limited item has enough power stored to last its life.  Unlimited ones need their power renewed every so often (like a battery pack).  This might require a crafter to make it out of mined resources - then all 3 professions are involved.  It makes the unlimited item - whilst still very powerful - still dependent on the other professions, which I think is key.

2) Only Limited items

For this option the problem is making the loot window interesting, without giving people items that lower the importance of crafting.  Otherwise people will just hunt for an item (such as now with the Adj Prototype weapons) - and the crafter is not needed.

Perhaps use the method above in point one - a chest in the loot window that contains all the items needed, but requires a crafter to make the item?  You would get the excitement of seeing a chest in the loot, and the added thrill of not knowing what is in it until you open it.


That's it - apologies for the lengthy reply, but it's one of those subjects that is important to all of us I think.

Q
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ahhtheegg



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PostSubject: Re: Limited VS Unlimited   2013-11-11, 07:16

I know that too many UL items would affect economy, but there just must be rare UL items in loot, just for that special feeling/expectations while doing stuff. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Limited VS Unlimited   2013-11-11, 12:25

Have a mixture of Limited and Unlimited.

The way I see it is

1. Its limited, you use the gun and the PID value of the gun goes back into the loot pool.

2. Its unlimited, you can repair it, the repair PID goes back into the loot pool.

3. And the cost of the ammo you shoot from both guns goes back into the loot pool.
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PostSubject: Re: Limited VS Unlimited   2013-11-26, 02:08

Only limited with very rare unlimited, for sure.

That's the only way to go in my opinion.
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PostSubject: Re: Limited VS Unlimited   2013-11-27, 00:45

Limited with very rare unlimited is what i would like to see.

with an exception for armors? Armors need to be Unlimited because its a pain to craft 7 pieces at once and from then on in part by part as they break. Maybe we can repair them with recycled mats? (for a limited number of times if we don't get them unlimited?)

A rare UL gun or healkit would just be cool to loot, because they are fairly easy to craft.
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PostSubject: only limited   2013-11-29, 02:44

only limited

to keep crafting and economy up and running ..
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PostSubject: Re: Limited VS Unlimited   2013-11-29, 03:13

I cannot believe I would say this as an EU player, but...

Only Limited Smile

At least for guns/faps/mining tools. Armor can be simplified also, no need for 7 parts really. The "other" game become a mess with so many items around, do we really, really need 200 sets of armor with bugged textures but similar stats?

Good unlimited items (rare by definition) tend to be hoarded resulting in few god-like avatars and a lot of resentment from the base, not speaking about economy going down the drain. Sure, I would love to have the only 5 UL BPs in game for a sough-after commodity, but is healthy?

As a counter-measure, the limited items could decay slower, something like 50h of continuous play. At 3 hours of hunt /day is half a month, it would be quite nice to go after the better deal after that time, or craft another with the looted materials.

Unlimited but rare items should be some silly funny items, clothes etc.
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